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thoth foc Arcane Technologies The Five	Posted - 2008.02.19 11:22:00 - [1] Originally by: Cippalippus Primus One thing that is always downplayed is Razor/Iron's involvement. Those guys are awesome, and I mean awesome. Another alliance that doesn't get enough mad props is TCF. The focus is always on the more vocal forum posters or battlefield dominants, which are Goons (the former) and RA (the latter), but TCF can field a pretty fearsome capital fleet (and they quite often do it), and know how to use it perfectly. In fairness we can only report what we see on the field, if Iron/Razor/TCF do alot more work behind the scene it's really your job to report it.. _________________________ xMenta (DSMA) xBOS (CA) ATUK (.5.) DICE (BOB) xElcyion Lacar
thoth foc Arcane Technologies The Five	Posted - 2008.02.19 17:28:00 - [2] Edited by: thoth foc on 19/02/2008 17:28:09 Originally by: Baxalusx You seem to have grasped the gist of my post: Most major alliances at the time had written off Titans for the short to medium term future due to perceived lack of benefit for the cost Given CCP's demonstrably tendency to make new ships overpowered, you might want to start questioning the leadership of "Most major" alliances.. There is a reason you need all those NAP's to survive.. _________________________ xMenta (DSMA) xBOS (CA) ATUK (.5.) DICE (BOB) xElcyion Lacar
thoth foc Arcane Technologies The Five	Posted - 2008.02.19 22:57:00 - [3] Originally by: Baxalusx Originally by: thoth foc Edited by: thoth foc on 19/02/2008 17:28:09 Originally by: Baxalusx You seem to have grasped the gist of my post: Most major alliances at the time had written off Titans for the short to medium term future due to perceived lack of benefit for the cost Given CCP's demonstrably tendency to make new ships overpowered, you might want to start questioning the leadership of "Most major" alliances.. There is a reason you need all those NAP's to survive.. If CCP has a demonstrable tendency to make new ships overpowered, thoth, then please demonstrate it or stop using words you don't understand. There is a good reason most major alliances had written off titans for military application: Oveur had stated they would be "flying stations", and even your own alliance's dread fleet was still in heavy development at the time, so the question is: Where did BoB get information about titans that convinced them to blow over 120b for the first on the off-chance that they would be useful, especially with a supposedly planned major war coming up? And why does none of this information appear in the leaks of your forum? Dear Baxalusx, let me introduce you to tech 2 ships.. alot have much the same types of roles as their tech 1 equivalents, but are overpowered versions them.. this is intentional game design, to encourage the use of these ships.. we could also mention the recent carrier & MS changes.. Balancing issues are the bane of game design.. In the end 120 billion isnt a lot for any alliance to risk for a ships with a "doomsday" weapon.. given that, that includes the BPO which isnt lost in building and that most major alliances at the time had capital yards and component building in place.. game inflation would ensure that the BPO would be useful/valuable at some point no matter what.. and if the ship turned out to be useless initially, the BPO could go into research until the player base whined at CCP enough to make a 120 bill ship useful.. it really isn't surprising that CCP didn't want to create a 120 bill isk paper weight... ASCN had the foresight to build 1 too.. the most ambushious alliances were heavily investing in all caps production.. at least 1 titan was an obvious extention to that.. _________________________ xMenta (DSMA) xBOS (CA) ATUK (.5.) DICE (BOB) xElcyion Lacar
thoth foc Arcane Technologies The Five	Posted - 2008.02.19 23:53:00 - [4] Originally by: Baxalusx From your first paragraph, it should by now be obvious to anyone that you have a flawed concept of what "overpowered" means (your incorrect definition appears to be "something that is better than another of the same type", while the common definition in an MMOG context is "a) something that is too good compared to the effort going into obtaining/using it, b) something too far above the existing power glass ceiling, c) something uncounterable"), so I'll leave that part of the argument there. The only one of you own definitions that defines a titans as over powered on, was ease of use.. but then most t2 ships with extreme/expensive setups are the same.. even some faction BS.. The main problem with titans was that the best counter for them was player skill, whereas most players prefer to blame someone else when they die.. _________________________ xMenta (DSMA) xBOS (CA) ATUK (.5.) DICE (BOB) xElcyion Lacar
thoth foc Arcane Technologies The Five	Posted - 2008.02.20 00:43:00 - [5] Edited by: thoth foc on 20/02/2008 00:43:41 Originally by: Scavok Edited by: Scavok on 20/02/2008 00:27:31 Originally by: thoth foc The main problem with titans was that the best counter for them was player skill, whereas most players prefer to blame someone else when they die.. No really, BoB never faced a competent titan pilot while they were unkillable Feel free to tell ET how he should have flown better.. basic ship control skills like aligning and scanning helps counter titan pilots very effectively... _________________________ xMenta (DSMA) xBOS (CA) ATUK (.5.) DICE (BOB) xElcyion Lacar
thoth foc Arcane Technologies The Five	Posted - 2008.02.20 10:07:00 - [6] Originally by: Baxalusx Originally by: thoth foc commonsense... support/logistics is crucial to any fleet.. You're speaking in a tactical context, while everyone else is talking strategy. Honestly, the main problem in this argument seems to be that you aren't on the level; why do I consistently need to dumb down what I say for you not to misunderstand it? I don't leave much room for ambiguity in these long winded sentences. The main problem in this arguement is you are desperately trying to use something that is perfectly sensible as propaganda.. and you have having to stretch arguements to cover the obvious flaws.. you have wrote paragraphs and failed to answer the obvious reply to your "why build it?" question.. "why not?" You come from a group used to playing safe.. you are looking for a 100% reason for something that could just be as simple as, Molle wanted to play with the biggest ship in game.. CCP make everything useful at some point, it is how they make sure addicted players keep having skills to play.. even if the titans hadnt been immediately useful, it was 100% sure they would be at some point.. and it's better to be prepared early than late.. as you might at some point in this discussion, realise.. _________________________ xMenta (DSMA) xBOS (CA) ATUK (.5.) DICE (BOB) xElcyion Lacar
thoth foc Arcane Technologies The Five	Posted - 2008.02.20 13:39:00 - [7] Edited by: thoth foc on 20/02/2008 13:40:41 Originally by: Baxalusx Yet another reply from thoth with no relevance or substantiating arguments whatsoever? Color me surprised. I am not looking for a 100% reason for anything, and have stated my recognition of alternate possibilities multiple times during the course of this. Your assertation that BoB deciding to invest heavily into Titans immediately before a large planned war being perfectly sensible fails, because that is not perfectly sensible based on the information and possible deductions I've proposed in this thread. Additionally, I have demonstrated probable cause to suspect foul play in the process leading up to that decision, probable cause that you have also failed to explain. You are, demonstrably (and now demonstratedly), simply a long chain of failposts. Get out. mhm.. what "substantiating arguments" do you think you will get from 2 ppl speculating about something neither has any facts about.. You have suggested a theory you choose to believe.. no amount of you suggesting it, will actually make if factual.. some ppl will believe it, some wont.. welp? The discussion is more likely to reveal the perspective of the ppl contributing than anything useful about the topic.. You think the titan project was a major decision.. I dont.. that is pretty much all you have actually demonstrated.. _________________________ xMenta (DSMA) xBOS (CA) ATUK (.5.) DICE (BOB) xElcyion Lacar
thoth foc Arcane Technologies The Five	Posted - 2008.02.20 13:51:00 - [8] Edited by: thoth foc on 20/02/2008 13:53:36 Originally by: Baxalusx I'm not speculating. ok :-) 1.the contemplation or consideration of some subject: to engage in speculation on humanity's ultimate destiny. 2.a single instance or process of consideration. 3.a conclusion or opinion reached by such contemplation: These speculations are impossible to verify. 4.conjectural consideration of a matter; conjecture or surmise: a report based on speculation rather than facts. edit: btw, looking up "conjectural" might help also _________________________ xMenta (DSMA) xBOS (CA) ATUK (.5.) DICE (BOB) xElcyion Lacar
thoth foc Arcane Technologies The Five	Posted - 2008.02.20 14:39:00 - [9] Originally by: Baxalusx or you are stating that my arguments are either impossible to verify or conjectural I think if you had been able to prove your arguements, you would have done it by now.. but i guess we'll see.. nothing sofar, that you have stated serves as proof of anyone's motivation.. _________________________ xMenta (DSMA) xBOS (CA) ATUK (.5.) DICE (BOB) xElcyion Lacar

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